Some of China's high speed trains and the ones with active lights are presumably about to start into their production rotation. All of them run well over twice the speed of American high-speed trains which are probably still running only on the Acela line along the Northeast corridor.
Here's a sample of running the Acela line between New York and Boston.
Note: it seems all great public works projects go to Boston and die since the Big Dig has been going on forever as well and Boston traffic is still crap. The Acela has been America's premiere high-speed line for decades and then nothing.
Here's one from China and it's not so hoo-rah as the Acela sample since the speaker has a relatively personable delivery and gives some background on using their system.
There are all manner of excuses for America's failure and one of them is 'America is too big' but try passing that one off in China without the whole room laughing. Another is 'America cannot afford it' but that typically comes from the same people who endorse spending half of the country's tax gold on the military.
America can afford it and could sure use the jobs, many of which are highly-technical. The trains will come when there's more profit in taking care of people who are Americans than in killing people who are not.
19 comments:
I could see them used in the northeast. But the interaction with populations and car traffic would seem to limit the capabilities.
Travelling NYC to LA would still take 15 hours. So unless you can cut down my house to destination time why train it instead of plane it
I can do Nashville to Miami in 3 hours by plane almost 10 by train.
Those are calculated at the trains top speeds of 215mph not the more realistic average speed of 165mph
I understand those things but the narrator in the China video was clear it's cheaper and faster for shorter runs (i.e. as most trips will be) to take their trains. Your estimates of benefits to long flights don't address how much it sucks to fly shorter distances when it's the same overhead to do it.
Based on the video I still agree that the northeast corridor is the best use as the passenger counts and distance could justify the expense of the system . Ohio would not be able to support a rail sytem as Cinti Cleveland 250 mi would likely stopover in Columbus Home to destination would not dramatically improve over driving or flying.
And I believe Amtrak has a new train comimg onboard in a couple of years to address the Northeast corridor and match the speeds of the Euro, Chinese trains.
I still dont think that the speeds will approach the high end as they still have to deal with car traffic intersections so they will only be able to aproach the high speed potential for relatively short distances.
I would think the US train people are rather embarrassed by Northeast Corridor's lack of advancement.
Until the US spends money on the infrastruture of the trains it wont change. I havent researched Amtrak much but it has always been a money loser.
Seems the best answer would be the Feds maintain the rails as they do the interstate highway system and lease the use of those rails to multiple train companies.
Infrastructure is the Socialist answer to everything. We're the workers and we can build any damn thing.
You already know right after we get that high-speed train network built up across the country, we will want to replace it with HyperLoops but that's evolution in action; all of this is evolution.
Evolution is the most brutal force of all since you keep up or get left behind and it shows no mercy for stragglers. It sucks to be a flightless Dodo bird, especially if you taste good.
That theme is a large part of why I keep hammering the cost of military waste since that squanders America's evolutionary potential and slows the country down. Evolution doesn't allow for boat anchors.
It is not a socialist answer. The Fed covers that which goes between states.
High speed trains makes no sense cross country. Or in low population densities
And leasing out the rails is a capitalistic notion
They make plenty of sense when the train is more comfortable, has better chow, and has a far better view of the countryside. Speed is the highest demand for commuters but they will put up with riding on a banana boat if it's the fastest way. Do look out for the wandering spiders in those bananas since that species may be the most venomous in the world.
I'll buy it that trains haven't been marketed worth a damn since I disagree there's no value in them because I disagree speed is the only variable.
The high speed trains have immense value in populated travel corridors.
But the trains I want in the west will allow sightseeing at a leisurely pace and many stops ie The Zephyr or the Chief 14 days and most of the western parks. A cruise ship on land
A trip I plan on taking the Fairy Princess on once it is approved.
The trouble is people often think in binary terms so high speed trains are all good or all bad but you know well hardly anything is binary.
There's some room for a bit of a states rights tangle with regard to trains since they won't mean anything unless there is a standard national gauge for the tracks ... and standards in general, for that matter.
Texas has probably the biggest reason for high speed trains of anywhere else in the country since it's a thousand miles from one side of the state to the other (or something like that). That distance probably means two+ hours in the air plus two hours on the ground at least. A train at 250 mph should be highly-competive since the ground time should be greatly reduced.
We already have a standard gauge.
Air time about 80 to 90 minutes for 1000 miles. About 60 to 70 minutes to get on the plane from airport arrival and 20 to 25 to get from plane to car landing
So I think the train is slower at that distance as a 250mph train only averages about 160 to 170 for the trip
Isn't Cincinnati to DFW about a thousand and that's one of the worst. Two hours in the air aren't so bad but they never know where to park the damn aircraft when you land there plus there's large hassles getting into Cincinnati due to TSA hassles and out of DFW due to traffic nightmare. Even if it's another five hundred miles, the point is still it takes a solid four hours point to point.
The traffic nightmares would be the same at a train station.
Setting up as a TSA PRE passenger and you bypass most of security
Obiviously you dont fly much as my number are fairly routine.
So under 500 miles a train would be competitive on time but above that not even close on 1000 miles 4 to 6 hours travel time depending on how fasy they could actually travel plus ingress and egress. I dont believe the non travel times would be vastly different
I really didn't see any huge problem in Euro train stations and I rode them a bit when I was in Amsterdam / Rotterdam way back. There wasn't as much hassle as in airports and part of that was from the lack of luggage inspections.
It's been a while since much time in the air but that was about the time span for a number of CVG-DFW flights. No exaggeration at all about DFW as it takes forever to park the aircraft and may take half an hour plus. They didn't know it was coming, I guess.
There's another player actively on the field now since they're unloading HyperLoop test track somewhere in Nevada just now for a big deal test of the system. That one looms and they claim it offers jet speed at 500mph or so.
I fly BNA to DFW.And I am in my hotel 45 to 60 minutes after landing.
I generally leave the hotel 2 hours prior to departure just in case.
The longest security wait was 30 minutes at Dulles last year. Normal is about 10 minutes.
Why do you think luggage inspection would go away for a train trip.
They inspect bags for amusement parks sports events etc so I would assume trains will be the same. It can take 30 minutes to pass security for Disney
My car does 160 but if there isnt the space to run that fast it is really useless. Hyperloop will be the same. And the first big accident will bting out regulations to limit the true speed
The pre-fly time is about the same with me. If I'm not on the way to the airport two hours before flight time then I'm bugged that timing may fall apart.
Security wait seems to have improved quite a bit since it had been much longer. I don't think they are inspecting luggage for trains but that may have changed. Inevitably they will, I agree.
There's plenty of space and you see just how much country is empty when you fly over it.
The infrastructure costs will be immense. And unless you can guarantee passengers no one will spend it.
America decide planes over trains decades ago. Outside of the northeast corridor or te west coast scenics routes I doubt it changes
Um, that 'decided years ago' pitch applies just the same to taking wagon trains to California!
The costs to just about anything will be immense in such a large country and I know it's not realistic when they don't fix the water supply (i.e. lead poisoning) but I've got to have me dreams.
The wagon train is a poor example. They were replaced by trains as trains were faster and easier. Trains are not faster than planes except in the East Corridor
The infrastructure cost for trains limits their ability to compete.
They completed the Music City Star.
Travels from east side in LebanonTn to downtown Nashville.
It costs $180 per month Travel time 40 minutes against car drive time of 45 minutes 60 in rush hour.
Add to that the 20 bus ride to arrive at your downtown location. And the drive to the departure station we will call even for both modes.
It is dramatically under utilized as it is there is a cost of parking savings but that is offset by the lack of need for the bus ride downtown.
I don't see your estimates for cars holding up due to increasing congestion, gridlock, etc. I've run a number of articles from whizkids coming up with ways to make robo vehicles drive smoother, more efficiently, etc but they go down the toilet with human drivers on the road with them so it looks to me like the road will do nothing but get worse.
There's not much to reduce infrastructure for trains and the cost of those HyperLoop tubes will be higher yet but I still see the Chinese making a good go of high-speed trains and they have massive herds of people to move. They also have high incentive when Beijing air is some of the worst in the world.
My point China has high population density, moving shorter distances.
And already had a decent amount of track laid over the years to allow upgrades faster easier and cheaper.
The highway that runs close to my house 15miles is going to 4 lanes. They had to widen 4 bridges. This was begum with the Obama infrastructure spending plan. 6 years later they are up to mile 12. So with they kind of track record I would notbe looking for ant high speed trains outside of the Northeast Corridor anytime soon.
Another quick example. The coal fired steamplant received its coal by train they replaced 5 miles of track new beds new rails cleared back all foilage 5 months after they finished, the deliveries moved to barge by the river. How could they not have know it was going to be a wasted effort
Post a Comment